Email discussion groups

Email Discussion Lists
12 Step Free Zone discussion group home page "12-Step-Free Zone: the place to be out of step" What 12-Step-Free Is 12SF is a discussion group for those who reject 12-step ideology or are seriously questioning it. Members are those who have left step groups, who are still attending but are uncomfortable and considering leaving, who have loved ones caught up in steppism, who are professionals in the fields of addiction, law enforcement, etc., or who simply have an interest in discussing and debunking 12-steppism. We talk about how steppism has harmed people (or how it hinders growth), and we debunk the superstitious and unscientific beliefs of the 12-step movement. We also talk about political issues related to "addiction" and "recovery", including court cases which have declared 12-steppism to be a religion. XA You will see this abbreviation used frequently by listmembers. It is a generic term for all of the hundreds of Step groups, AA, NA, OA, GA, Al-Anon, Gam-Anon, ACoA, etc. What 12-Step-Free Is Not 12SF is not a support group for quitting addictions, although information on non-stepper methods of doing so is generally available for the asking. Some of us have used non-12-step support groups or therapy to solve problems, and some have solved our problems on our own. It would be incorrect to assume all members have a history of alcoholism or drug addiction. We also have and welcome members who were involved with Overeaters Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, Al-Anon, or other XA, or who have a loved one who is. 12SF is NOT a list for discussion of how to improve XA, how to return to "true" AA, or how to "take what you need and leave the rest." The theme of this list is to be FREE of 12-steppism. We hope you enjoy your membership. 12 Step Coercion Watch discussion group home page Dear Fellow Freedom Lovers: 12-Step Coercion Watch is a discussion list for those concerned about the violations of religious liberty that are occurring throughout the world where people are being coerced into the 12-Step programs of Alcoholics Anonymous and its many offshoots such as Narcotics Anonymous. In the United States alone more than a million people each year are forced into these programs by courts and employers. Two federal circuit courts (Second and Seventh Circuits) and two state supreme courts (Tennessee and New York) have rule this practice to be in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, yet the coercion continues throughout the country and also in other countries. The discussions will focus on planning and initiating organizational efforts to end 12-Step coercion worldwide. The primary focus will be, but not be limited to, legal challenges in the courts. This may include, but not be limited to, advising those now being coerced that this coercion is unconstitutional, encouraging them to file suit, and finding legal assistance for them. We encourage lawyers and laypersons alike to participate in this group and hope that a Supreme Court decision will eventually lead to the end of 12-step coercion in the U.S. We also would like to hear from those from other countries where coercion exists so together we can work to end 12-step coercion worldwide once and for all. Hamshrn discussion group home page Harm Reduction - Abstinence - Moderation The only F-word here is "failure". Without AA discussion group home page Description Yes, you can stay sober without AA. We are people who have been burned by AA and we discuss things we believe are wrong within AA. If you are convinced of the AA doctrine that you cannot be sober without AA, then this is probably not a group you should join. Our desire is to help you see what AA really is and we are not counselors or trained professionals. This list is not meant to replace professional therapy. The only rule we have is no political discussions. We have members of all political beliefs and this is the only taboo topic.	EFTCoaa discussion group home page EFTCoaa is a group committed to deprogramming from AA's cult doctrines. It is not our business nor is it our mission to determine for our members how they should handle alcohol in their personal lives. We tend to be more supportive of those who have maintained abstinence, as most who come here do not wish to drink. However they DO wish to be free of AA Stepism. What IS our mission is to help individuals, who have been harmed by AA and see it as a cult, to deprogram themselves from it's destructive thinking. The wounds that cults leave behind are deep and lasting, and it is our hope that EFTCoaa will be a place to demystify and de-sanctify 12 step rhetoric that stays in the thought processes long after a person has left the AA cult. We promote personal empowerment rather than powerlessness; freethinking rather than rigid non-thinking obedience; choice rather than fear and terrorizing; and freedom to live one's life as one sees fit. There are 2 things we do not tolerate and will ban members for: proselytizing for AA and abusive personal attacks on members. This place is to be a safe haven for many minds with many ideas. The whole point is to regain our individuality. We are not professionals. We encourage those who need medical attention to seek it, and maintain links to other groups for support of abstinence such as Rational Recovery, S.O.S., SMART etc. X-STEPPERS discussion group home page This site is for people who were desperately seeking recovery from addiction, or was coerced by the "powers that be" to join what was thought to be a group that would help them find freedom from addiction, and instead found themselves caught up in a cult that they could not easily walk away from without repercussions. Many people view 12-step organizations as harmless support groups designed to help people overcome various addictions and regain their lives, however, for many of us this view was far from the reality of what 12-step groups really are! Many of us have awakened after years of brainwashing to find that we had not regained our lives, but had instead lost our individuality and the freedom to think for ourselves. Many of us have lost much more, some have lost their families and suffer emotionally from their experiences inside these "harmless support groups," others have committed suicide because they could not live up to the expectations of sponsors or other group members. This site is dedicated to those who cannot tell their stories. It is our hope that this discussion list will provide some insight into how cults operate, how you can discern whether or not you are in a recovery cult, and how others have found their freedom from the step religion and reclaimed their lives. Drinking Again discussion group home pag This is a group for former Alcoholics Anonymous members (AA's) who have returned to social drinking. We do not support breaking abstinence. We simply want a place on the web to discuss our new situation. Other Yahoo groups of ex-AA's are about maintaining abstinence while dealing with bad 12 Step experiences. There's also Moderation Management, problem drinkers practicing moderation, but most never were in AA. Our new situation is unique and, indeed, "baffling," but we can't talk to our AA friends without eliciting alarmist responses. AA's believe that no member can return to social drinking. However, they seem to have forgotten this passage from page 39 of the Big Book: "...we have a certain type of hard drinker . . . [who] can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome..." If we have returned to problem free drinking, we were probably this latter type. Some issues we deal with: Were we really merely "problem drinkers" due to immaturity or circumstance? Were we fools to spend so much time "in the program?" Or, are we kidding ourselves now? How can we maintain problem-free drinking? Could program dogma take hold once again and force us to play out a "slip script?" Or...Can we still adhere to 12 Step philosophy even though we drink moderately? If we develop problems again, would we go back to AA? How do we deal with being separated from something that was such a big part of our lives? *Are there were problems underlying our drinking that still need to be addressed?

Email Discussion Lists

12 Step Free Zone

discussion group home page
"12-Step-Free Zone: the place to be out of step"
What 12-Step-Free Is

12SF is a discussion group for those who reject 12-step ideology or are seriously questioning it. Members are those who have left step groups, who are still attending but are uncomfortable and considering leaving, who have loved ones caught up in steppism, who are professionals in the fields of addiction, law enforcement, etc., or who simply have an interest in discussing and debunking 12-steppism. We talk about how steppism has harmed people (or how it hinders growth), and we debunk the superstitious and unscientific beliefs of the 12-step movement. We also talk about political issues related to "addiction" and "recovery", including court cases which have declared 12-steppism to be a religion.

XA

You will see this abbreviation used frequently by listmembers. It is a generic term for all of the hundreds of Step groups, AA, NA, OA, GA, Al-Anon, Gam-Anon, ACoA, etc.

What 12-Step-Free Is Not

12SF is not a support group for quitting addictions, although information on non-stepper methods of doing so is generally available for the asking. Some of us have used non-12-step support groups or therapy to solve problems, and some have solved our problems on our own. It would be incorrect to assume all members have a history of alcoholism or drug addiction. We also have and welcome members who were involved with Overeaters Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous, Al-Anon, or other XA, or who have a loved one who is.

12SF is NOT a list for discussion of how to improve XA, how to return to "true" AA, or how to "take what you need and leave the rest." The theme of this list is to be FREE of 12-steppism.

We hope you enjoy your membership.

12 Step Coercion Watch

discussion group home page

Dear Fellow Freedom Lovers:

12-Step Coercion Watch is a discussion list for those concerned about the violations of religious liberty that are occurring throughout the world where people are being coerced into the 12-Step programs of Alcoholics Anonymous and its many offshoots such as Narcotics Anonymous. In the United States alone more than a million people each year are forced into these programs by courts and employers.

Two federal circuit courts (Second and Seventh Circuits) and two state supreme courts (Tennessee and New York) have rule this practice to be in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, yet the coercion continues throughout the country and also in other countries.

The discussions will focus on planning and initiating organizational efforts to end 12-Step coercion worldwide. The primary focus will be, but not be limited to, legal challenges in the courts. This may include, but not be limited to, advising those now being coerced that this coercion is unconstitutional, encouraging them to file suit, and finding legal assistance for them.

We encourage lawyers and laypersons alike to participate in this group and hope that a Supreme Court decision will eventually lead to the end of 12-step coercion in the U.S. We also would like to hear from those from other countries where coercion exists so together we can work to end 12-step coercion worldwide once and for all.

Hamshrn

discussion group home page Harm Reduction - Abstinence - Moderation
The only F-word here is "failure".

Without AA

discussion group home page
Description
Yes, you can stay sober without AA. We are people who have been burned by AA and we discuss things we believe are wrong within AA. If you are convinced of the AA doctrine that you cannot be sober without AA, then this is probably not a group you should join. Our desire is to help you see what AA really is and we are not counselors or trained professionals. This list is not meant to replace professional therapy.

The only rule we have is no political discussions. We have members of all political beliefs and this is the only taboo topic.

EFTCoaa

discussion group home page

EFTCoaa is a group committed to deprogramming from AA's cult doctrines. It is not our business nor is it our mission to determine for our members how they should handle alcohol in their personal lives. We tend to be more supportive of those who have maintained abstinence, as most who come here do not wish to drink. However they DO wish to be free of AA Stepism. What IS our mission is to help individuals, who have been harmed by AA and see it as a cult, to deprogram themselves from it's destructive thinking. The wounds that cults leave behind are deep and lasting, and it is our hope that EFTCoaa will be a place to demystify and de-sanctify 12 step rhetoric that stays in the thought processes long after a person has left the AA cult. We promote personal empowerment rather than powerlessness; freethinking rather than rigid non-thinking obedience; choice rather than fear and terrorizing; and freedom to live one's life as one sees fit. There are 2 things we do not tolerate and will ban members for: proselytizing for AA and abusive personal attacks on members. This place is to be a safe haven for many minds with many ideas. The whole point is to regain our individuality. We are not professionals. We encourage those who need medical attention to seek it, and maintain links to other groups for support of abstinence such as Rational Recovery, S.O.S., SMART etc.

X-STEPPERS

discussion group home page

This site is for people who were desperately seeking recovery from addiction, or was coerced by the "powers that be" to join what was thought to be a group that would help them find freedom from addiction, and instead found themselves caught up in a cult that they could not easily walk away from without repercussions.

Many people view 12-step organizations as harmless support groups designed to help people overcome various addictions and regain their lives, however, for many of us this view was far from the reality of what 12-step groups really are! Many of us have awakened after years of brainwashing to find that we had not regained our lives, but had instead lost our individuality and the freedom to think for ourselves. Many of us have lost much more, some have lost their families and suffer emotionally from their experiences inside these "harmless support groups," others have committed suicide because they could not live up to the expectations of sponsors or other group members. This site is dedicated to those who cannot tell their stories. It is our hope that this discussion list will provide some insight into how cults operate, how you can discern whether or not you are in a recovery cult, and how others have found their freedom from the step religion and reclaimed their lives.

Drinking Again

discussion group home pag

This is a group for former Alcoholics Anonymous members (AA's) who have returned to social drinking. We do not support breaking abstinence. We simply want a place on the web to discuss our new situation.

Other Yahoo groups of ex-AA's are about maintaining abstinence while dealing with bad 12 Step experiences. There's also Moderation Management, problem drinkers practicing moderation, but most never were in AA.

Our new situation is unique and, indeed, "baffling," but we can't talk to our AA friends without eliciting alarmist responses. AA's believe that no member can return to social drinking. However, they seem to have forgotten this passage from page 39 of the Big Book: "...we have a certain type of hard drinker . . . [who] can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome..." If we have returned to problem free drinking, we were probably this latter type.

Some issues we deal with:
*Were we really merely "problem drinkers" due to immaturity or circumstance?
*Were we fools to spend so much time "in the program?" Or, are we kidding ourselves now?
*How can we maintain problem-free drinking?
*Could program dogma take hold once again and force us to play out a "slip script?" Or...Can we still adhere to 12 Step philosophy even though we drink moderately?
*If we develop problems again, would we go back to AA?
*How do we deal with being separated from something that was such a big part of our lives?
*Are there were problems underlying our drinking that still need to be addressed?